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This is a response to: Geez, Louise. That was thorough.
Poo Bah
Reged: 09/08/06
Posts: 9818
Loc: Mountain Standard Time
My responses are in bold...
09/19/11 08:46 PM


My feelings on Shelly haven’t changed much. I knew she was smart and would play that kind of game. She looks athletic and I thought she might be able to win comps until I heard about the rod and screws in her back.

I thought the same thing. I thought being a hunter, etc. that she would be pretty outdoorsy and competitive until I heard about her injuries.


Taking that into account I wonder how a smart woman who is a fan of this game thinks riding ANYONE’S coattails will get her to the end in this day and age of Big Brother. You can’t be so obviously playing both sides (whether you lie or not) and not be able to save yourself via PoV or winning HoH when it’s necessary. And where was she on questions HoH comps?

Are you trying to say she had NO business even trying to play this game? See, IMO, if this game was solely about physical players & comps, the show wouldn't have made it as long as it has. What fun is it to sit there and watch a bunch of jocks flexing their muscles day in and day out? What makes the game fun for me is having the physical, strategic & social competitors working together! That is what alliances are all about. How can a physical competitor come into the game and expect to win every single comp? It drives me crazy when people say so and so doesn't deserve to be there because they are not competitors. Shelly didn't just laze around and ride coattails, she worked her tail off for her alliance! The questions, she came really close at least once (against Kalia). Not to mention, she outlasted ALL of her alliance members in the ski endurance. She played a hellofa game, certainly did more than Adam and Jordan did!


So many of us talk about Shelly’s hatred of Rachel. There are two glaring contradictions. In the DE, she had Rachel’s fate in her hands. Voting out Rachel would redeem her in Jeff’s eyes, and if she did dislike Rachel, end her game — yet she chose to evict Jeff and not Rachel. The second is her jury vote. Was that to appease Jeff and Jordan? Shelly went into the jury house gloating toward Jeff and claiming the twist got her — it just wasn’t the twist she thought it was. I take you back to Shelly’s vote during DE. Had she voted to keep Jeff instead of Rachel then Rachel wouldn’t have been there to win PoV hanging and Kalia was last out before Rachel. But this a road less traveled by and only speculation

As I stated in my analogy, I think Shelly would have voted both Dani & Rachel out had Jeff not went off on her. Jeff's #1 tactic to deflect his own guilt was to get mad, point fingers and bark up people's trees. He chose a very bad time to bark up Shelly's tree cuz she had a gun and wasn't afraid to use it! LOL Jeff realized this a little too late. Shelly burned her bridge to that alliance and had to roll with it. No turning back. As she said, Bring it on, this is how the game is played! As far as the twist... Had the twist not been in play and Rachel still won the POV, Adam most likely would have gone up and most likely, Adam would have gone home. Both Kalia and Rachel and likely Shelly, would have voted him out and Shelly would have lived another week. As far as her vote, Shelly voted on who she felt played the best game and that happened to be Rachel.


Shelly has to own her own demise. She should understand that a Trojan Horse is not a good thing to be and only a shell to hold malice (or an opposing army in its original incarnation). Additionally, if she ‘blindly’ followed Jeff and Jordan, that was a choice she made, not some spell they cast or a potion they poured into her drink. She has to own that too. When you decide to follow someone you’ll never come in first if you let them lead you around. Perhaps there are more positive lessons in Shelly’s season of BB for Josie to learn from. (That wasn’t one of your concerns, but many posters talked about the example Shelly set for her daughter.)

As I said, having a plan going in doesn't mean you are going to stick to that plan. Circumstances alter cases. She was flipped by Evel Dick and she was honered to be playing the game with some of her all time favorite players. She did become a little blinded or starstruck, as some might say. But she did finally realize what she was doing and tried to shuffle her deck. I am well aware of the posters going on and on about the example that Shelly was setting for her daughter. She was aware of it too. She did struggle with that. But she was there, she was in up to her eyeballs and had to push forward. She said she had a lot explaining to do when she got home! Josie is a bright little girl and I am sure Shelly and Tony are going to overcome that hurdle together.


I hope this doesn’t come across as pushy – I’m trying to be objective here. They all made mistakes in the house and in the game and no one should bear the burden alone.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That's what makes the world go round! Unfortunately for Shelly, not to many can see that others made mistakes in the game as well. Perhaps blinded by their own adoration of the vets? There are times when some peoples opinions spill over to deep seeded hatred and psychopathic behaviors. She got most of that burden as well as her family and her employers did. It's absolutely pathetic. JMO


I personally wish E Dick would’ve/could’ve stayed longer. I think it would be interesting to see how the others (vets and rookies alike) went after or lined up behind him. As I posted elsewhere the only certainty would be that he and Daniele would’ve added two more to the vets available to win HoH comps. The vets rolled until Kalia won questions, but we can’t say for sure Kalia would’ve still been there then if E Dick was in the house. Or that Kalia would be on the other side by then. But I’ve digressed. Mea culpa, mea culpa

Again, thank you for putting so much effort and thought into this thread.

Well, as I said before, it's easy for us to sit in the comfort of our own homes and become backseat BB players and play the what if game. Dick left, the game was played the way it was played.

Entire thread
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Shelly Beginning to end... Part I
09/14/11 12:55 PM
xx * Setting a record straight here...
09/21/11 10:25 AM
xx * Actually, Kalia/Porsche said "Falling down the stairs could be a form of birth control" and all four of them laughed about it. The issue is not
09/24/11 07:59 AM
xx * People are totally not understanding my point of the post....
09/27/11 06:24 AM
xx * Louise, I completely understand what you are trying to say, but it is your defense of Shelly that I believe that people are taking issue with. This is
09/27/11 09:27 AM
xx * For Shelly, it all comes down to guilt by association, her decision to hang with the mean girls.
09/27/11 10:12 AM
xx * Sigh...Nevermind SMH NT
09/27/11 11:15 AM
xx * See, I really need the flashback date and time. People wanna say it happened but until I have proof, it was cam 5! 2 much made up stuff this year NT
09/25/11 05:32 PM
xx * 8/21 7:30-8:05pm camera 4 live feeds Shelly
09/25/11 10:55 PM
xx * See as I said in the post 'Setting a record straight here'
09/26/11 06:53 PM
xx * Further explanation live feed 8/21 response shelly by conversation-Louise
09/26/11 11:43 PM
xx * Nevermind NT
09/27/11 10:24 AM
xx * Louise, I don't think there is a person on here that would agree that what was done to Shelly and her family is right. I personally contacted FB &
09/27/11 04:26 PM
xx * Louise, I definitely do not want to belabor this point any longer than it has to. However, I just want to say a few more things and be done:
09/26/11 08:33 PM
xx * Re: Offensive conversation-shelly, Porsche, kahlia, etc. 8/21-7:37pm lvfeeds-SCDrMom,Louise
09/26/11 10:46 PM
xx * Welcome to Jokers, ashergold. I am so glad to see a "newbie" step
09/26/11 08:18 AM
xx * Awesome summation....and your final line was priceless...LOL NT
09/26/11 08:13 AM
xx * Not made up at all FB 8/21 7:37pm Cam 4, Kalia, Dani, Porsche & Shelly all talking and laughing and having a good old time joking about it. Again,
09/25/11 09:30 PM
xx * Great assessment Louise, I agree with everything you say about Shelly, and its one of the reasons I liked her as a player. But I do disagree with..
09/18/11 10:14 PM
xx * My response is in bold
09/22/11 07:57 AM
xx * Well, he "kept them safe" long enough, he had fulfilled his role, and then it was time for him to go. He was more of a threat than an asset then. NT
09/21/11 05:48 PM
xx * All is fair in love and war... LOL NT
09/22/11 07:58 AM
xx * Yep! You don't get points for "being true to your BFFs" if you still get voted out before F2. The name of the game is "don't get evicted". NT
09/23/11 10:44 PM
xx * Very very well said! Thanks for taking the time to share it! NT
09/20/11 02:36 PM
xx * One other thing I have to say, When Shelly said she heard Jordan and Rachel calling her a bitch, that was NOT true, Shelly was spying and listnening
09/18/11 09:00 PM
xx * She obviously didn't hear it correctly and truly felt it was about her, hence, the hurt feelings. Do you have a FB date and time? TIA. NT
09/19/11 07:41 AM
xx * Louise, I have it somewhere, will check & post, but look down...Shelly tweeted about your post on here! She loved it!!!!!! NT
09/19/11 11:15 AM
xx * AND Shelly is referring others to this post to defend herself. PPL are really mean-twitter haters now. NT
09/20/11 08:33 PM
xx * These haters are unbelieveable. Everyone else has let it go, why can't they? NT
09/21/11 06:10 AM
xx * I see a few problems with this theory, Jeff was the only competitor of the 4 that could win physical comps, that is why they should have protected him
09/18/11 08:48 PM
xx * Actually, I don't think Shelly was going to vote for Dani to stay
09/19/11 05:20 PM
xx * Thanks to whomever linked to this for Shelly to read on her Twitter, maybe it will bring Shelly to start posting on JU! Shelly, you have lots of fans
09/18/11 07:48 PM
xx * Yep, Grod-dora's Box is what killed Shelly's game, not anything Shelly did. A good BB player knows you have to play Production and America too. NT
09/19/11 01:21 PM
xx * Just wanted to let you know....Shelly herself replied....Tweet inside:
09/18/11 08:26 PM
xx * Thanks Louise for the best thread I've read all summer. I think you are spot on about Shelly. Despite her vote for Rachel, Shelly is still my fav NT
09/16/11 02:54 PM
xx * Geez, Louise. That was thorough.
09/16/11 02:42 PM
xx * My responses are in bold...
09/19/11 08:46 PM
xx * I’ll only respiond to the one reply. You restated your opinions well enough
09/20/11 06:31 AM
xx * Ugh no, Shelly wasn't the cause of her demise. AG and a mad dash to save Jordan after her gameplay failed took out Shelly. NT
09/18/11 07:41 PM
xx * What makes you so sure Jordan would have left instead of Rachel? NT
09/18/11 08:30 PM
xx * That POV was Rachel's to lose, and sure enough, she won it! And saved Coattails Jordan in the process. NT
09/19/11 01:22 PM
xx * oh! Can't wait to read this :) Thanks! I had a couple issues with Shelly, but I'm so glad someone showed up to show what BB is really about for me. NT
09/14/11 11:11 PM
xx * wow. 9 parts? U took in-depth seriously. I was a Shelly fan. The turning point for me was not the flip
09/14/11 05:04 PM
xx * archer I also remember that and was really surprised that she felt it was her place to suggest/imply that NT
09/14/11 06:01 PM
xx * OK So I am not able to find this in flashbacks, do you know when this happened? I do remember a talk
09/14/11 05:58 PM
xx * Was this the convo in flashbacks Aug 17 @ 10:32am? NT
09/14/11 05:36 PM
xx * It wasn't this one... NT
09/14/11 05:53 PM
xx * BTW... outstanding postS... NT
09/14/11 05:17 PM
xx * I will have to re-watch that talk and get back to you. NT
09/14/11 05:12 PM
xx * TY... It did take me quite a long time but I poured over Flashbacks and episodes. It's like watching the whole season twice! LOL Kinda fun! NT
09/14/11 04:41 PM
xx * Great analysis, Louise. It obviously took a lot of time and a lot of thought to put this together. I really enjoyed it. NT
09/14/11 04:11 PM
xx * Wow, that was long, but it was a GREAT read. I wish people would take off their Jeff-n-Jordan-colored glasses and look at the situation clearly. NT
09/14/11 03:40 PM
xx * I thought Shelly's elitist game of Hubris was gawdawful & Jeff & Jordan were the only ones snowed by it! NT
09/15/11 02:15 PM
xx * Hmmm, I didn't think that Shelly came off elitist at all, quite the contrary. Very informal, homespun and folksy. And hubris? Not a word I'd pick. NT
09/15/11 10:40 PM
xx * Shelly Beginning to End Part IX
09/14/11 01:20 PM
xx * Shelly Beginning to End Part VIII
09/14/11 01:13 PM
xx * Shelly Beginning to End Part VII
09/14/11 01:11 PM
xx * Shelly Beginning to End Part VI
09/14/11 01:09 PM
xx * Shelly Beginning to End Part V
09/14/11 01:07 PM
xx * Shelly, Beginnging to End Part IV
09/14/11 01:05 PM
xx * Shelly beginning to end Part III
09/14/11 01:04 PM
xx * Shelly beginning to end... Part II
09/14/11 01:01 PM
xx * Shelly is a con-artist who thought she had the game "in the bag" the minute she walked in the house & she was WRONG. She played an obvi con-artist
09/15/11 02:14 PM
xx * Con-Artist? Hubris? Elitist? LMAO Shelly? Those are words I might use for Brendon & Rachel. Maybe even Jeff and Jordan but NOT Shelly! ROTFLMAO NT
09/16/11 06:45 AM
xx * Again, Shelly wasn't elitist, or really overconfident, which is what I think you really mean to say when you say elitist. Shelly...
09/15/11 10:46 PM
xx * I agree...
09/18/11 08:33 AM
xx * Talk to me about Shelly in the BB house contrasted with Shelly in the jury house if you see any differences.
09/16/11 02:33 PM
xx * My responses are in bold...
09/16/11 09:23 PM
xx * I tend to agree with Louise on this, and the way Jeff has backpedaled in subsequent interviews reinforces this view. He seems to get it now. NT
09/16/11 10:58 PM
xx * Jeff's interviews ONLY reinforce him trying to HELP Shelly with the Nutsos that went after her. NOT a JJ fan either NT
09/18/11 10:45 PM
xx * J & J & S are friends! I <3 How they can let it go. Just game! J & J were mortified by the threats against S & her fam...genuinely cared. NT
09/20/11 12:41 PM

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